Speaking to the Future:
Wallace and Clara E. (McClure) Turner
Oral History Interview with
Wallace and Clara E. (McClure) Turner
Conducted on June 13, 1993, recorded in Douglas County, CO.
Douglas County Historical Society Oral History Project
[Interview conducted] by Kent Brandebery and Betty Prince (daughter)
Transcribed by Maureen Wysocki
Original transcript on deposit at
Douglas County History Research Center
Douglas County Libraries
Note: The transcript of this oral history is as accurate as possible. All text in brackets is not part of the oral history. It has been added for clarification purposes.
BEGIN TAPE 1 SIDE 1
CLARA TURNER: I wasn't going to school at that time. I was I went to high school--
PRINCE: Is that better? [Moving the microphone?]
KENT BRANDEBERY: Yeah
CLARA TURNER: That would be better.
[Several conversations happening simultaneously]
CLARA TURNER: Well, no that was the farm, [at the high school?]
PRINCE: You can move that chair over…
CLARA TURNER: Probably 1923. Did I go to our school in 1923?
WALLACE TURNER: Mmm [affirmative?]
CLARA TURNER: That's probably 1921.
CLARA TURNER: I imagine. Now this uh, this teacher, was uh, usually Mrs. Well, she was a Cox.
BRANDEBERY: A Cox? Lucius Cox?
CLARA TURNER: Yes, that's his daughter.
BRANDEBERY: A daughter?
BRANDEBERY: Yeah, where's the barn at?
CLARA TURNER: Barn?
BRANDEBERY: Yeah. Is that the one out here?
CLARA TURNER: No, no. This is on the T Ranch down there where there is no barn no more.
CLARA TURNER: No.
PRINCE: Bill Sinclaire owns that.
CLARA TURNER: Yes.
PRINCE: But you are telling who the rest of the others--
CLARA TURNER: I can just tell him part of them.
CLARA TURNER: And you see, there is the school where I went to. I didn't go to this school. This was built after I quit.
BRANDEBERY: So we're talking about approximately when was that? This school built?
CLARA TURNER: I imagine this was built let’s imagine about 1922.
[Multiple inaudible conversations expressing doubt.]
WALLACE TURNER: No, about 1923 or 1924.
BRANDEBERY: '23 or '24. So Lone Tree School, the one that sets there now, is about '23 or'24.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah.
BRANDEBERY: Who built it?
CLARA TURNER: That I can't tell you.
BRANDEBERY: Was it a contractor or was it the local people?
CLARA TURNER: I would imagine… I wouldn't be surprised if it was Luke Raup(?)
BRANDEBERY: Yeah, that's who they- but I didn't know if that was for that school or one of the earlier schools.
CLARA TURNER: That would have been for the old school.
PRINCE: Here’s the old school [picture].
CLARA TURNER: Yes, that’s the old school.
PRINCE: And that's a pretty good picture of the old school.
BRANDEBERY: Well, that was the one that was built in 1872.
PRINCE: And that's the one that mom said they moved it over to Herb Stewart’s, but it's not there any more.
CLARA TURNER: Herb Stewart’s place- you know where Herb Stewart' place?
CLARA TURNER: He moved it. Now, how he happened to move it, I don't know. Well, he was on the school board. I suppose he got it somewhere from the school district. And I don't know what he was going to do with it. It set there for a long, long time.
PRINCE: Probably going to use it for a grain barn or something.
WALLACE TURNER: He musta used it for a grain barn.
PRINCE: But you knew a few more of the kids that were there besides Louis Cox.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah. This was Grace, um… used to be Overstreet, this is the young Stewart girl, Helen, her husband, Snead, she's a Snead now. Her name is Snead. And of course, that's Amy… Higginson.
BRANDEBERY: Higginson. Ok. Is that Russell’s sister?
PRINCE: Russell's wife.
BRANDEBERY: Oh, Russell’s wife, ok.
PRINCE: Amy and Helen were sisters.
CLARA TURNER: This is my brother Ken, and this is my brother Cliff. And that little girl- I don't know her. And I don't know that one. Nor that one. Now, that boy he worked down at Reilly's, and I can't remember what his name was. What we call Reilly's, is where the…
PRINCE: Where the school sets.
CLARA TURNER: Well, this guy, this real estate man-
PRINCE: Yeah, Mike Paul.
CLARA TURNER: Mike Paul lives. That’s where his place is. That used to be Reilly's. Of course, years and years and years ago it was McInroy’s. Harp (?)
BRANDEBERY: Oh yeah, he later went on into Littleton and developed an insurance business in there.
[Inaudible comment from Wallace Turner]
CLARA TURNER: Now, this here, this is Amy Stewart, which is Amy Higginson now, and that was Grace Overstreet, and this is my brother Cliff, and I think that was Melvin- what did I say their names was? Oh, Woods, Woods, their last name was Woods. And Alice Wollfensberger, and I don't suppose you remember who she was; later years she was [inaudible]. And that girl worked, I think that girl worked there at Dakan’s. This is Joyce Beeman.
BRANDEBERY: Oh that’s Joyce… Tell me about where Beemans lived.
CLARA TURNER: Up Jarre Canyon, er, Jackson Creek clear up- I know it as the James place-, and I don't know who has it now.
PRINCE: Some horse people-
CLARA TURNER: There's horse people everywhere.
BRANDEBERY: Now, Beemans, the Beeman ranch was where Doc Duncan lives.
WALLACE TURNER: They lived up there before [inaudible].
BRANDEBERY: Oh, they did? Well the, I wonder who lived in that ranch of Doc Duncan's and Beemans before Beemans did.
CLARA TURNER: I don't know that. Beemans moved from here down to there. I really think that the Beemans only went to one year of school up here.
BRANDEBERY: ‘cause I have a video tape: I interviewed George before he died, and he tells stories about going to the old school there in Sedalia, the old stone school. In fact, he got kicked out of there.
CLARA TURNER: Is Margaret Stewart- used to be Margaret Stewart- Margaret Benn- is her mind all right?
BRANDEBERY: I think so.
CLARA TURNER: She could tell you a lot of things 'cause she went to school there too.
PRINCE: Well, that might be a good contact for you, Kent, on the school.
CLARA TURNER: On the school, yes, I think it would 'cause she went there. Her and her sister Amy, and then her sister Helen. See, this is Margaret Stewart or Margaret Benn is now, and was still the Grace Overstreet, that's the Woods, and that was Lorna Woods, which was a retarded person. In that day and age, she was terrible, terrible retarded, but she managed to go to school.
PRINCE: It’s interesting that she was in school.
CLARA TURNER: And that was her sister, and of course that’s me. This is Jack Hall.
BRANDEBERY: And that's approximately what year then? 1910 or '12?
CLARA TURNER: Don't you imagine I was about ten or twelve years old then?
BRANDEBERY: Well, I would say ten years. Were you born in 1900?
CLARA TURNER: 1906
BRANDEBERY: Oh, 1906.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, 'cause I'm 86 now.
BRANDEBERY: Okay, then, about 1915 or '14. 1914 or '15.
CLARA TURNER: I still went to school here 'cause here I am there, and there's Mildred Overstreet and Lorna Woods. I think- I can't see as good as I ought to- Margaret Stewart and Grace Overstreet.
PRINCE: Now, where did the Overstreets live then, mom?
CLARA TURNER: They lived on James's place where Jameses lived.
PRINCE: Before after Beemans or before Beemans moved there?
CLARA TURNER: Beemans never lived on James' place. They lived on the place up above.
PRINCE: Oh, on the place above Jameses'.
CLARA TURNER: And it isn't there any more. [unclear] They been gone for a long time.
PRINCE: And did they ride their horse, or did they walk?
CLARA TURNER: The Jameses- I mean the Beemans?
PRINCE: The Beemans
CLARA TURNER: I can't remember how they got there. But they had to they had to have rode a horse.
BRANDEBERY: What did George's dad do?
CLARA TURNER: I don't know that either.
BRANDEBERY: There's no farming ground up there, is there?
CLARA TURNER: Oh, yes. Quite a lot of farming ground up there- hay, quite a lot of hay at James' place. Whoever's there now--I ain’t too sure. Sinclaire’s got quite a lot of place for pasture. He's got pasture runs clear back there.
PRINCE: Well, they probably raised potatoes too, didn't they? Didn't they raise potatoes?
CLARA TURNER: Potatoes never did do very good down in this country.
CLARA TURNER: That's a pretty good picture of the old schoolhouse.
CLARA TURNER: I can't tell you that either.
PRINCE: Probably too many kids.
WALLACE TURNER: It was pretty small.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, it was awful small. Of course, we never had very many kids. Now, here I think they probably were a class of kids. Most of them was, what, like that? A few farmers.
BRANDEBERY: I just wondered, was the building pretty bad inside?
CLARA TURNER: No. I don't think so. Because they moved it down to Herb Stewart's and it set there for a long, long time.
PRINCE: I remember that school settin' there.
CLARA TURNER: I imagine he probably used it as a granary, later, don't you?
BRANDEBERY: Yeah. Of course, they used schools for other functions. Did you have meetings there, did you have Sunday School in the school?
CLARA TURNER: I don't remember having Sunday School in this in this school down here. We did over here in Glen Grove. Yeah. We had Sunday school there quite a lot.
BRANDEBERY: Well, did they use this for public meetings?
CLARA TURNER: No, I don't think so. The only meetings were the guys that was on the school board. They always had what would they call them- members of the school board.
BRANDEBERY: School board meetings.
PRINCE: I suppose they were school board meetings.
CLARA TURNER: My dad was on the school board for quite a long time. I can't remember anybody else--
PRINCE: And Herb Stewart
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, and Herb Stewart was. There was always just three.
CLARA TURNER: Down below.
BRANDEBERY: Down below, along the creek bed. Well, why was the road down there?
CLARA TURNER: I can't tell you why the road was down there, and I really don't know why they changed it. Oh, it coulda been the snow drifted pretty bad down in there and in those days you didn't have nothing, just a horse and horses and them, go-devils or something that plowed snow. [Go-Devil is another term for a travois, a piece of logging equipment occasionally used to plow snow.]
BRANDEBERY: Well, we know that there was trails following along Plum Creek as early as 200 years before--
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, probably so--
BRANDEBERY: And they probably built the road right over the trail there.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, probably did.
BRANDEBERY: Is there any signs of that old road down there below?
CLARA TURNER: No, I don' think—Oh, yes, going down the hill below the Moores' that's where they used to go. You know, the Moores' mailbox.
PRINCE: That's Sue Moore that lives on the place across the creek where the road goes down in there--
CLARA TURNER: That's the same road that's been there.
PRINCE: So they went around that hill then to go on up the creek.
CLARA TURNER: And of course, these people now have the road fenced in. Or it’s been fenced in since the road has changed. And really and truly I don't know why they changed the road- unless well, of course there was that hill.
BRANDEBERY: When did they build the new road? While you were in school?
CLARA TURNER: No, I don't think they did.
BRANDEBERY: It was after that then. Some time during the thirties then?
CLARA TURNER: I imagine. The people that boarded with my folks was the people that was working on the telephone lines when they put al the lines in. I don't remember who- 'course most of the hauling was done by horses.
BRANDEBERY: Did WPA have anything to do with that road or-?
CLARA TURNER: I don't think there was WPA then.
BRANDEBERY: Well, that road interests me because we know that, for instance, in 1820 Stephen Long had an expedition down the valley and he is credited with naming Plum Creek.
CLARA TURNER: Oh!
BRANDEBERY: And that was in 1620 , and that was a government financed expedition and he states in his diary that he was following trails and paths left by trappers, probably French and Spanish trappers, and so it must have been a well traveled trail.
CLARA TURNER: It probably was.
CLARA TURNER: No,
WALLACE TURNER: It would have been by the Camel Rock.
PRINCE: Oh, it was by Camel Rock.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, when you go down in the meadow with the road kinda set up on top of the hill, and then the people that had it then. T Ranch. Dillon. And Haskell. Just the other side of the big rock, and you went down that way. And part of the time we would go to school through where Sue Moore lives now.
PRINCE: I was going to ask, did you go on the other side of where the house is now or was you on this side?
CLARA TURNER: We went right between the barn and the house. Part of the time we would go through where Sue Moore is, and part of the time we would go through the T Ranch and it was going through the T Ranch was where I upset the buggy.
BRANDEBERY: Who owned the T ranch?
WALLACE TURNER: Dillon.
CLARA TURNER: Dillon, Ratcliffe and Dillon.
BRANDEBERY: Why was it called the T Ranch?
CLARA TURNER: That was their brand. Their brand was a T
BRANDEBERY: Oh, their brand.
CLARA TURNER: Good brand, nice brand.
CLARA TURNER: No, we didn't go to Castle Rock. Most of the time we went to Larkspur- to get groceries and—well, they had quite a few different kinds of stores there. You could get dried goods, and you know--
BRANDEBERY: Did you ever have to go in to the courthouse in Castle Rock or--
CLARA TURNER: Well, probably so. No, I kinda doubt it.
BRANDEBERY: For taxes or--
CLARA TURNER: Taxes didn't amount to much in those days.
BRANDEBERY: Or go in for a court hearing or a trial or--
CLARA TURNER: Nobody ever got into trouble in those days. (laughter)
BRANDEBERY: You took care of it yourself.
CLARA TURNER: No, I don't think so, do you?
WALLACE TURNER: No, very seldom we ever went to the courthouse.
BRANDEBERY: Oh, you had to go to the doctor?
CLARA TURNER: I was asleep They couldn't wake me up.
BRANDEBERY: Who was the doctor?
CLARA TURNER: Dr. Alexander was the doctor for years and years, I suppose it was him. And then Palmer. Dr. Palmer and Dr. Alexander. Stayed there for years and then retired, maybe died. They stayed just like Dr. Heaton stayed.
BRANDEBERY: Is he your doctor now?
CLARA TURNER: Yes has been for years. Years and years. I think he's getting [unclear] I don’t know if he remembers quite as good as he used to.
BRANDEBERY: Maybe not, but he knows more than most of the other ones.
CLARA TURNER: Well, he takes more interest, it seems to me like.
WALLACE TURNER: A lot of interest in his patients.
BRANDEBERY: Well, he knows you.
CLARA TURNER: Maybe he doesn't with the younger people. He's not taking on too many anymore.
CLARA TURNER: Oh, no.
BRANDEBERY: You didn't go to Denver.
PRINCE: You went to Canon City; you went south more than you went north because all your family was down that way.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, but of course we didn't do that in the horse-and-buggy days either.
BRANDEBERY: If you would have gone to Denver would you have gone straight down West Plum Creek?
CLARA TURNER: That's the way the road goes now mostly. And then under the hill there by the school house, it didn't go like it does now. We went under.
BRANDEBERY: When was the first time you got to go to Denver?
CLARA TURNER: I don't think I ever went to Denver. Because I was too darn little couldn't remember it anyway. You know, that’s too long, you couldn't expect me to remember.
WALLACE TURNER: You probably went [unclear]
PRINCE: She wasn't even married the, she was a kid.
WALLACE TURNER: Well, not then, but you ought know when you went.
CLARA TURNER: The first time I went to Denver I…
BRANDEBERY: Before the Second World War?
CLARA TURNER: Oh yeah, before the Second World War.
CLARA TURNER: I don't remember having any meetings. The only thing I remember- I think it was during the First World War- they were flying the first airplane across, and down there where the ranch, where Sinclaire is now, we went down there- we must have went in the horse and buggy up to the top of the hill up there and seen this airplane going across over there. I can remember that.
BRANDEBERY: Was that during the First World War?
CLARA TURNER: When the first airplanes was a- going, you know. Great novelty to see an airplane, you know. And of course we didn't see much of it. It was way off on the horizon, you know, but then we got to see--
BRANDEBERY: Well, did you see the airplane before you ever saw a car? When did you see your first car? Was that before the airplane?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, yeah, 'cause our first car when I was talking about – old 190.
WALLACE TURNER: Was in '75, our first one.
CLARA TURNER: No, I think our first one in '80
WALLACE TURNER: No, it was '75.
CLARA TURNER: Hm. Ok. Brand new car.
BRANDEBERY: What year was that?
PRINCE: How did they bale it?
CLARA TURNER: A baler, a regular baler. It was stationary. It was pulled by a horse and it went around and around and around.
PRINCE: So did it make round bales?
CLARA TURNER: No, not like they make now. But somebody had to stand there --
WALLACE TURNER: Put blocks in ‘em, and pulled the hay. There was slots through the wood block and you poked a wire through there on one side, and then back through on the other side behind the block, tied er together, and when the block come out, then you put in another block in and then you put wood in.
BRANDEBERY: Was the hay that you baled hay that you were going to sell? Because you stacked all your own hay, didn't you?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, we baled it out of the stack. We stacked it in the summer and in the winter that's what we done with the baled hay. And then they hauled it with a team and wagon [unclear].
PRINCE: Did the road go through Larkspur?
WALLACE TURNER: Through Perry Park.
PRINCE: Did the road go through Perry Park, then instead of?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah.
PRINCE: It followed the creek right up into Perry Park. Right.
WALLACE TURNER: [unclear] Almost the same way it goes now.
CLARA TURNER: It was mostly coal.
BRANDEBERY: Did they mine the coal around here?
CLARA TURNER: No. There was no coal mining.
WALLACE TURNER: It was shipped in. There was a little coal around here. There was a coal mine up there on Tom Stewart's place.
CLARA TURNER or PRINCE: Hm. Where McDonald’s live now.
BRANDEBERY: But you shipped in coal.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah. To keep the schoolhouse warm we had a great big, round pot-bellied stove, I guess you'd say. It was in the middle of the school. Most of the time the teacher kept the fire going, most of the time the kids didn't.
BRANDEBERY: Then she boarded with neighboring ranchers.
CLARA TURNER: Most of the time we boarded the teachers. Most of the time we boarded the teachers.
WALLACE TURNER: The teacher had to go up and start a fire and clean their own schoolhouse before the kids got there and clean it up there at night before they went home.
PRINCE: And you said you hauled—the kids took turns at takin' water. Now where did you get the water? Was it out of the creek?
CLARA TURNER: We took it from our homes.
PRINCE: Oh, you took the water from the home.
CLARA TURNER: Now how we took water. Part of the time we couldn't have taken the water because part of the time we rode the horse, like that, see, and we couldn't have packed any water. So I suppose when we done that the other kids had to take the water. But we took turns the kids, you know, takin' water to school. And I suppose it probably was kind of terrible water for drinkin’ I don’t know. The toilet was down over the hill.
BRANDEBERY: Did you have any kind of a shed to put the horses in?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, we had a barn.
BRANDEBERY: How many stalls were there?
CLARA TURNER: About four. Four or five.
BRANDEBERY: Where was it from the school? West, or South? Down the creek?
CLARA TURNER: I think the barn was kinda, no, it wasn't on the creek, I think it was kinda east of the schoolhouse.
BRANDEBERY: Oh, east up there where the present road is now then.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, probably. Maybe not quite that far up.
CLARA TURNER: I don't know how they woulda got planted around the school. Unless somebody did plant them.
WALLACE TURNER: I’d imagine somebody planted ‘em.
BRANDEBERY: ‘Cause I don't see them any place else around there. It had protected the school very well 'cause nobody can get in there.
PRINCE: And then the big weed that you were talking about-
BRANDEBERY: Oh yeah, it looked like rhubarb.
PRINCE : They call that burdock.
CLARA TURNER: Wild burdock.
BRANDEBERY: Is it good for anything? Do cows eat it?
CLARA TURNER: No.
BRANDEBERY: Looks like rhubarb, doesn't it?
CLARA TURNER: It's got big leaves like rhubarb, un-huh. When it gets ripe it's got cockle-burrs on it.
BRANDEBERY: Oh, it does?
PRINCE: Terrible. I got those things in my hair when we were down there the other day.
BRANDEBERY: And it's called what?
PRINCE: Burdock, wild burdock
CLARA TURNER: And of course we have another weed looks like rhubarb wild hemlock.
BRANDEBERY: Poisonous, very poisonous.
PRINCE: Now, is the burdock not toxic?
BRANDEBERY: I don't think so.
PRINCE: It's smell is kind of a weird smell.
CLARA TURNER: I didn’t know it had a smell. We had a lot of it. For years I dug it. I'd go along and dig it up because it gets in the cows and horses manes and tails. Just like cockle-burrs, and you know how bad they are, getting' in things like that. Only I think the burdock was bigger than the cockle-burrs, isn't it?
WALLACE TURNER: More round and bigger. It’s more hardier, I think.
WALLACE TURNER: The kids had to walk or else ride a horse.
CLARA TURNER: And they couldn't go so far.
BRANDEBERY: But that's quite a few schools.
CLARA TURNER: Yes, it is.
WALLACE TURNER: They didn't want the kids to have to go more than two or three miles if they could help it.
BRANDEBERY: Did it have anything to do with personalities of families up and down the valley?
CLARA TURNER: I don' think so. I don't think that had anything to do with it. So many kids, so many families, they had to consider the distance, see.
WALLACE TURNER: It wasn't too far between so they could go from one school to the other without having to go too far. For little kids to walk three or four miles in the wintertime, that's quite a ways.
CLARA TURNER: Used to be when we had winter, we had winter. We didn't go like we do nowadays. Used to be when we went with the buggy and horse, when we go across the creek we had banks of ice about like that. [unclear]
BRANDEBERY: What did you do? Did you shoe the horses? Did you put any kind of ice shoes on them?
WALLACE TURNER: Yeah they call them sharp-shod. [unclear] In the autumn they made the shoes and put the corks on them and made 'em sharp--
BRANDEBERY: When was the last time the Lone Tree School was used? When did they quit having school there?
PRINCE: I went with a car to Larkspur, remember? Marie Jones took me in a car before they got the bus.
BRANDEBERY: Well they had busses in 1939 and '40.
PRINCE: You thought it was about when they consolidated--
BRANDEBERY: You mean, in 1958?
PRINCE: Was that when they consolidated them?
BRANDEBERY: I thought they'd quit using Lone Tree and these schools here some time during the Second World War.
CLARA TURNER: No, I think they were still going then.
BRANDEBERY: Were they?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, I think so.
PRINCE: I think Lone Tree was one of the last ones to close, wasn't it?
CLARA TURNER: No, I think Glen Grove--
PRINCE: Oh, Glen Grove was the last one to close?
CLARA TURNER: And of course Oaklands stayed longer than that.
PRINCE: I guess Oaklands was the last one to close.
BRANDEBERY: So, you think Lone Tree over here was going during the war years the Second World War years?
CLARA TURNER: I think so, don't you?
BRANDEBERY: 'Cause I remember the school busses running in '40 and '41, and they'd run up to the north end of the county. 'Course I don't know if they'd run all over the county, but they'd run to the high school in Castle Rock.
CLARA TURNER: A lot of the time we had to take you out to meet the school bus. ‘Course in this day and age, I don’t think the school bus would come up here anyway. And besides, I don’t think Sinclaire would let them go through his place. He’s cranky. [long pause] Oh, we’d get kids to school I suppose, you’d have to, wouldn’t you?
CLARA TURNER: It really isn’t a county road…
PRINCE: Up to the Dakan, where the old Dakan place is a county road 'cause Uncle Floyd used to plow it.
WALLACE TURNER: [unclear] they locked the gate and we lost the right of way.
PRINCE: Well, I suppose 'cause the road had been used all of these years.
CLARA TURNER: Not much, but then it was used. It was an open road. ‘Course, I guess Cousins would probably have stopped that too, wouldn’t they? ‘Cause Cousins wouldn’t have wanted people riding through there either. Anybody with money don’t like people on their property…
WALLACE TURNER: I was working for Cousins [unclear] and he'd drive from here to there--[unclear]
BRANDEBERY: Is that right? Was that when Vic Christensen was working for him?
WALLACE TURNER: Vic Christensen never worked for him; he owned part of the place.
BRANDEBERY: Oh, he did? I see. ‘Cause I remember coming down here and helping my father wire the stables and the houses down here in 1946 and '47, and Vic was working- or lived down here then.
PRINCE: Well, Vic lived there for a while, didn't he?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, he lived there for quite a while. [unclear] I'm going to fall down.
PRINCE: You're going to fall down?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, if I stand up too long. [unclear]
BRANDEBERY: That's all the school?
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, now this here is Victor Hensen. [unclear] They used to live here till years and years ago.
BRANDEBERY: I see.
PRINCE: They lived here, at this place?
CLARA TURNER: That's right. And they went to school over at Glen Grove - horseback, all the way from here.
PRINCE: But they probably went across--
CLARA TURNER: Oni? Oni. One was named Onie(?), one was Nellie. Wallace went to school with both of them, all of them, I bet.
WALLACE TURNER: Just Nellie.
PRINCE: So you went to school at Glen Grove then? And that's when you lived on the Sinclaire place?
WALLACE TURNER: Um-hmm.
CLARA TURNER: I don't think there's any other, these are mostly family-
BRANDEBERY: Well, uh,
PRINCE: Do you think those are worth getting pictures of, Kent?
BRANDEBERY: Oh, I think so. I think it would be very important to have these first classes and copies made of them.
CLARA TURNER: Would you want… I don't know the names of all of them, but you see--
BRANDEBERY: Well, probably what the best thing to do would be is get pictures and get them blown up larger and then bring them back to you and so we can write on them and look at them and not disturb these pictures.
CLARA TURNER: Well, if you can get them out, I don't mind--
PRINCE: Well, Johanna said, told me that she's got a place that will just take your album and get the picture and not take it out of the album.
BRANDEBERY: Well, the thing to do first of all, is clean the pictures a little bit 'cause people's handprints are on them, and so before we take a picture and that will clean them up and take the grit off of them, and then take the picture, and yes, I suppose that could be done. I just don't want to work with these pictures and disturb them. I'd rather get some made so we could work off of them.
CLARA TURNER: See, these aren't mine; these are my mother's. This is my mother's book here.
CLARA TURNER: At what they call the Miller place, which was part of Tom Starr's. Part of it they call the Miller place now, part of it is still the Starr place.
PRINCE: Now, the Miller place is across the road and over the hill.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah.
PRINCE: From where Tom Starr's place is now- McDonald's is now.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah.
PRINCE: So it was north.
BRANDEBERY: What road was that on?
PRINCE: It's on the Larkspur Road.
BRANDEBERY: On the Larkspur Road.
PRINCE: Um-hmm. It's north. You know where Tom Starr's house sets? Or where McDonald's house sets, the white house?
PRINCE : And there's a road that goes right across, an entrance way, right across from their driveway, and it goes over the hill.
CLARA TURNER: North.
PRINCE: And that's where the Miller place is. 'Cause that's another place that I want to go and take pictures of, and I know that they'll let me in there to do it.
BRANDEBERY: Where did your folks come from?
PRINCE: Grandad McClure is the one that traveled across…
BRANDEBERY: Are you a McClure?
CLARA TURNER: I used to be a McClure, yes.
BRANDEBERY: I see, okay.
PRINCE: And her mother was Sweeney.
CLARA TURNER: And she originally was from Switzerland. My grandmother was from Switzerland.
BRANDEBERY: Now, we mentioned the Cox that taught school: now the Coxes lived in Larkspur, didn't they?
CLARA TURNER: I don't think they lived in Larkspur- they lived in Castle Rock. Mr. Cox, oh he mended saddles.
BRANDEBERY: Yeah, Lucius did. Well now, I used to talk to him and he used to talk to me about livin' on a ranch down at Larkspur.
CLARA TURNER: Well, maybe he did and I don't know about it because a lot of things happened when I was a kid.
BRANDEBERY: And he went to Castle Rock, and he used to tell me about boarding in Castle Rock to go to school in there.
CLARA TURNER: Oh, he probably did. Used to be a lot of them did that. In Castle Rock to go to school, ‘specially high school. When they got ready to go to high school, then they had to board in Castle Rock, ‘course the grade schools, why they [unclear].
PRINCE: Now did you go to Castle Rock high school, the one year?
WALLACE TURNER: Um-hmm.
PRINCE: You went to Castle Rock, but mom went to Monument.
CLARA TURNER: Yeah. I don't know why I went to Monument other than maybe because I didn't want to board in Castle Rock, and I boarded with my aunt and uncle up at Monument. And of course, Cliff went to high school at Castle Rock. [unclear] I don't think he did: [unclear]
PRINCE: And Uncle Kenneth didn’t graduate.
CLARA TURNER: I don't think Ken(?) even went to high school. Can't remember. I don't think he did.
WALLACE TURNER: He went half a year at Castle Rock and half a year at Platteville.
CLARA TURNER: Platteville, up north.
PRINCE: You gonna go see that animal?
WALLACE TURNER: Dad traded the place at Platteville for this place over here where Sinclaire is. He wasn’t very good at business. [unclear] He bought a place up there. His mortgage [unclear]. He stayed up there one year and he went bankrupt [unclear].
PRINCE: How did he take it away from him?
WALLACE TURNER: [unclear]
PRINCE: Oh, he didn't pay, okay.
CLARA TURNER: No, there weren't too many burros down here. I don't know how it happened- see that was when I was too small. That's me and my brother on it. I don't know where that darn burro come from. Now when you was up on the ranch there you had a burro, but of course that was before that.
WALLACE TURNER: Yeah.
PRINCE: Didn’t you have a burro up at Woodland Park. Wasn't that where you fell off and broke your arm?
WALLACE TURNER: [unclear]
CLARA TURNER: So you had your arm broke twice?
WALLACE TURNER: No, just once.
CLARA TURNER: You hurt your head when you fell off the horse. Too bad it didn't break it good (Laughter)
WALLACE TURNER: I guess it did. That woman put me right back in joint right there in the road. She said my eyes was kinda glassy [unclear] sight-seeing bus [unclear]
PRINCE: And she put it back in place.
WALLACE TURNER: [unclear]
CLARA TURNER: Yeah, and of course, you've found out that the schoolhouse that you was talkin' about isn't the schoolhouse that is there now.
BRANDEBERY: Well, that's right, and there was a lot of suspect in this because of the type of lumber in it. It was milled too well. And it was dimensioned lumber. The hardwood flooring, the tongue-and-groove flooring. I still wonder what kind of a footing is under that school over there now. On the one side it has concrete, but I think that's been added.
PRINCE: And see, this old school, see, shows when it was on concrete, the old school. So if the old school was on concrete, the new one would sure be on concrete.
CLARA TURNER: [unclear]
PRINCE: Well, but this one is so much bigger that this little guy was.
CLARA TURNER: Well, that's probably one reason why maybe they changed. Of course, they never had very many kids because the districts was kinda you know you divide ‘em up, it was kinda small.
PRINCE: But look how many kids is here.
CLARA TURNER: Well, there's more kids here that there is here because that's after I quit.
BRANDEBERY: Well, what about the Glen Grove school? Was it rebuilt again?
CLARA TURNER: No, I don't think so.
BRANDEBERY: That's the original building?
CLARA TURNER: The Oaklands school--I think that's the one we ought to have.
BRANDEBERY: Well, it/s already been moved.
PRINCE: The Oaklands school is at South Street.
BRANDEBERY: It's in by the Methodist church in Castle Rock, and the school district restored it and put it on the school ground there.
CLARA TURNER: We can’t have anything. [Prince laughs] Of course, this one they made a house or a barn or something out of it.
BRANDEBERY: A house out of it.
CLARA TURNER: And of course it used to be a schoolhouse. When you first went to school. Those other pictures, I guess--
PRINCE: Stone Canyon school?
CLARA TURNER: Stone Canyon- used to be a schoolhouse up there.
PRINCE: No, we don't have any pictures of Stone Canyon school.
CLARA TURNER: Part of that school is in John Hammond's house.
PRINCE: In Castle Rock.
BRANDEBERY: Why is that?
WALLACE TURNER: Because they bought the schoolhouse and tore it down and used it-
BRANDEBERY: Oh, is that right?
WALLACE TURNER: I was on the school board when they sold it and schoolhouse was torn down.
BRANDEBERY: What did he have to pay for it?
WALLACE TURNER: Oh, I don't know, I think about $400.
BRANDEBERY: That much?
WALLACE TURNER: Around there.
BRANDEBERY: John's in pretty tough shape. He has a terrible time gettin' around. He still continues to drive, but he shouldn't; he just can't see.
CLARA TURNER: I thought he got so he could see pretty good after he had his cataract operation.
BRANDEBERY: He can see straight ahead, but he can't bend his head, like this, and he just drives and wherever he can see in front of him, that's it.
CLARA TURNER: I wonder when he had his last drivers' license renewed. He said he had it renewed. They shouldn't renew it.